This week on Listening to America, after a lifetime of thinking about the third president of the United States, Clay Jenkinson has made a list of 10 insights about the great man. Clay puts these propositions to our favorite guest historian Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky. 

This week, Clay Jenkinson’s conversation with Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky about the creation of the Constitution in the summer of 1787. What did they get right, what did they get wrong, and which issues did they simply kick down the road? Was the true divide between big states and little states, or as James Madison said, between slave states and free states? Why did the Founders work behind closed doors in secrecy? Why did they throw out the Articles of Confederation when they were instructed merely to make a few strategic amendments? Why did Alexander Hamilton give that insane five hour speech calling for the President and Senators to serve for life? How would things have been different if Jefferson had been there, if John Adams had been there, if Patrick Henry had been there? Well, Patrick Henry said he “smelt a rat.”

Guest host David Horton of Radford University talks with Clay Jenkinson about Ken Burns' latest documentary, The American Buffalo, which premiers on PBS on October 16. Clay has now been in five of Ken Burns' documentaries, and has been one of the historical advisers in two of the films. Among the topics of discussion: Who was William Hornaday and what role did he play in the saving of the buffalo? What was Theodore Roosevelt's role? How do you prepare to be interviewed in a Ken Burns film? Why is the buffalo so important to America's sense of its heritage? Clay also speaks of his own long association with the buffalo, first seen when he was a child in North Dakota’s Theodore Roosevelt National Park.

This week, Clay Jenkinson’s interview with Dr. Yuval Levin of the American Enterprise Institute about how we can turn America around from this funk of profound disillusionment and cynicism. Dr. Levin is the author of many books, the most recent of which is A Time to Build: How Recommitting to Our Institutions Can Revive the American Dream. As the United States lurches towards its 250^th birthday, are we still a nation with a common history, a common set of values, and a common destiny? Dr. Levin’s view is that nostalgia for the golden age between the end of World War II and Watergate is a mistake, that we have to stop dwelling on the past and what went wrong, and begin rebuilding trust and trustworthiness in our national institutions. We need to demand more of our political leaders and ask more of ourselves if we want to recover. And, he recommends books every American should read as we get ready for July 4, 2026. 

This week, Clay Jenkinson’s conversation with actor Steven Duchrow about taking on historical characters. Steven has been performing as the poet Vachel Lindsay for many years, but now he is taking on the character of the poet Carl Sandburg. Where do you start? How do you figure out what has to be in any performance whether it is five minutes long or an hour and a half? Once you have done all the research, how do you turn that immense body of information into a solid and entertaining Chautauqua performance? Steven Dukrow provides several superb recitations of poems by Vachel Lindsay and—of course—performs Sandburg’s most famous poem: Chicago, Hog Butcher of the World.

This week, Clay Jenkinson’s conversation with Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky about the agony and ecstasy of writing a book. Among the topics: Do you do all the research before you start to write or just begin and research as you go along? How do you pace yourself and not burn out? How do you know if the book is any good? What do you do to power through the gumption traps—writer’s block, the distracting dramas of real life, other professional commitments, the days or weeks when you just don’t feel like writing, or conclude that you have nothing important to say?

Lindsay’s second book is tentatively titled Making the Presidency, about the administration of the second President John Adams. Clay has authored more than a dozen titles.

This week, guest host David Horton of Radford University returns to engage Clay Jenkinson about the plans and purposes of Listening to America. Why the name change on the highly successful Jefferson Hour? What will the new program title enable Clay to explore over the next decade? Did the New Enlightenment Radio Network change the name because Jefferson is now perceived as toxic because of his complicities in slavery and the dispossession of Native Americans? How exactly does Clay intend to "listen" to America? How does this new program emphasis help us think about America as the republic approaches its 250th birthday on July 4, 2026? 

This week, guest host David Horton of Radford University questions Mr. Jefferson about his formation, about the path he took to national greatness. What were the particular influences of Jefferson's father Peter, a self-made man of the overseer class, and Jefferson's mother Jane Randolph, who belonged to one of the most socially and politically prominent families in Virginia? Why did Jefferson's life veer from the agrarian simplicities of western Virginia and lead him to the writing of the Declaration of Independence and later on to the Presidency of the United States? Might Jefferson have been happy if he had followed the trajectory of his closest friend Dabney Carr, who seemed content with a modest house, a few books, an amiable spouse, and a simple Virginia diet?

This week on Listening to America with Clay Jenkinson, Clay's conversation with his regular guest Professor Lindsay Chervinsky about Ten Historical Counterfactuals. Historians are warned never to indulge in what if history, but we cannot help it, it just such fun. What if the British had won the Revolutionary War? What if Alexander Hamilton had become the President of the United States? What if Jefferson had never owned an enslaved person?  What if the South had won the Civil War? What if John F. Kennedy had not been assassinated on November 22, 1963? What if Adolf Hitler had gotten an atomic bomb for use at Moscow or Stalingrad? If some of the pivotal moments in world history had gone the other way, how might things be different? 

This week, Clay Jenkinson’s interview with David Nicandri in the aftermath of the disaster of the submersible Titan in the north Atlantic. Nicandi reflects on the spirit of exploration, the risks taken by those who would go where no man has gone before. Were the five men who died when the submersible imploded just billionaire tourists or adventurers in the spirit of Lewis and Clark and Captain James Cook? How can we make sense of the continuing lure of the Titanic? Where does undersea tourism go from here?

This week, Clay Jenkinson’s conversation with his cinephile friend Niles Schwartz of Minneapolis about the summer blockbuster film Oppenheimer. People are already saying it is one of the great films in recent decades, a certain classic like The Sound of Music, Dr. Strangelove, the Deer Hunter, and Citizen Kane. Clay asked Niles to forget about history and the character of Robert Oppenheimer, but simply to respond to the film as film: cinematography, editing, direction, the acting, the score. Niles agreed that Robert Downey, Jr., is headed for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor. Niles Schwartz is a tough critic, but he loved this film.

This week, Clay Jenkinson interviews Bruce Ledewitz, the author of The Universe is On Our Side: Restoring Faith in American Public Life. Since Nietzsche's famous pronouncement that "God is dead," Euro-American culture has become profoundly secular--and it shows, according to Ledewitz. Without the great tradition of Christian culture, America has descended into radical individualism without any moral anchor for public or private behavior. Ledewitz rejects the Enlightenment's belief that secular culture is a sufficient restraining mechanism for humans who are, in the Enlightenment's formulation, capable of considerable perfectibility. Jefferson's belief in a "moral sense" is not enough to give American culture meaning or restraint. Ledewitz sees little hope for a restoration of a morally grounded American society.

This week, Clay Jenkinson’s conversation with Listening to America’s Enlightenment correspondent David Nicandri after viewing the blockbuster film Oppenheimer. How close did the film stay to the historical record? Was the characterization of Oppenheimer both accurate and compelling? Why does Lewis Strauss (Robert Downey, Jr.) play so large a role in the film? Will the film be remembered in Hollywood history? Why is the film rated R? Is Christopher Nolan’s depiction of Edward Teller an allusion to Stanley Kubrik’s Dr. Strangelove? Do the four narrative strands of the film hold together? What is the significance of the argument of the film that, once you create nuclear devices, they are sure to be used in the next existential world crisis?

This week, Clay Jenkinson's interview with the Thoreau of Great Salt Lake, Scott Baxter, about the possibility that the lake will die well before it dries up entirely. Baxter has spent decades monitoring the lake as its levels diminish thanks to over-allocation and more recently the prolonged drought in the American West. With his future son-in-law, Baxter circumnavigated the lake several years ago. The toxic dust that is exposed by declining lake levels represents a respiratory problem for the citizens of the Wasatch Front in Utah. That dust finds its way to the snowfields in the mountains east of Salt Lake City, damaging the ski industry and causing the snowpack to melt sooner than ever before. This interview is part of Listening to America's Water in the West initiative.

This week, the second of a two part conversation between Clay Jenkinson and Lindsay Chervinksy on the life and achievements of John Quincy Adams. The little known sixth President is so interesting that Clay and Lindsay decided to do a second Ten Things program about him. Did he have a sense of humor? Could he relax? What kind of First Lady was Louisa Adams? Was Adams a true abolitionist or did he prefer caution to a bold assault on slavery? Why did he dislike Thomas Jefferson so much?

This week, the first of a two part conversation between Clay Jenkinson and Lindsay Chervinsky on the life and achievement of John Quincy Adams, the sixth President of the United States. Adams was perhaps the greatest Secretary of State in American history. He had a rough one-term presidency, but then he won a seat in the House of Representatives that he retained until his death in 1848. He was one of America's greatest opponents of slavery.

This week, Clay Jenkinson talks with David Horton of Radford University in Virginia about the artificial intelligence revolution. Where are we with AI and where are we headed? What is the future of privacy? Is it possible to regulate AI? Will the machines terminate us as a slovenly, irrational, and wasteful species? Will we live forever or at least another hundred years? What will universities do now that ChatGPT is rocking education? Meanwhile, Clay asks ChatGPT to write an essay condemning Jefferson for slavery and another defending him.

Clay Jenkinson interviews Enlightenment correspondent David Nicandri about the discovery of Ernest Shackleton’s ship the Endurance at the bottom of the Weddell Sea in Antarctica. The Endurance sank in November 1915 after being trapped and crushed by polar ice. A rescue archaeologist named Mensun Bound led two multimillion dollar expeditions to find the sunken ship, which had settled on the bottom of the icy sea nearly 10,000 feet below the surface. On March 5, 2022, an underwater probe found the Endurance right where it should be, and to their great surprise, it was wonderfully intact. Clay asks Nicandri whether such an expensive undertaking was worth it.

This week, Clay Jenkinson and regular Listening to America correspondent Lindsay Chervinsky talk about moments when the first president, George Washington, may have been tempted to drop the mic - if such a technology had existed in his time. We discuss Washington's response to the Newburgh Conspiracy, Washington showing up at the Continental Congress in uniform before they had appointed him Commander in Chief, Washington's Farewell Address, and Washington's gift of a basket of figs when Colonel Hamilton was beset by a sex scandal.

This week, Clay Jenkinson interviews the actor John Gowans, who portrays Dr. Ward Evans of Northwestern University in the upcoming Robert Oppenheimer film. Gowans tells fascinating stories about being on the set of the film, particularly the 1954 security hearing in Washington, DC., when Oppenheimer was treated like a man of potential treason by the McCarthy-era security establishment. The director Christopher Nolan kept all the actors in a small enclosed space to create the atmosphere of tension and excruciating intimacy of the security hearing, after which Oppenheimer's security clearance was withdrawn by the United States government. Oppenheimer is one of Clay's historical characters.

This week, Clay Jenkinson speaks with the director of the Glen Canyon Institute Eric Balken for our initiative Water and the West: The West Runs Dry. Balken believes Glen Canyon Dam should be re-engineered to pass the water of the Colorado River, including its immense silt load, around Glen Canyon Dam. Given the over-allocation of the Colorado River and global climate change, it will be impossible, Balken says, to keep both Lake Powell and Lake Mead full. He believes the water crisis is actually a great opportunity to undo one of the greatest industrial mistakes in American history. What if we emptied Lake Powell and created Glen Canyon National Park in one of the most beautiful canyons in the world?

This week, Clay Jenkinson inaugurates the first episode of Listening to America with WHRV's Barbara Hamm Lee in the studios of WHRV in Norfolk, Virginia. How will Listening to America be different from the Thomas Jefferson Hour? Clay explains the mission of Listening to America--to go out and find the authentic voices of America as we approach the 250th birthday of the United States. In a nation as large and diverse as the US is it even possible to seek the Soul of America? The first of the Listening to America episodes was recorded in front of a live audience at WHRV.

This week, Clay Jenkinson discusses Jefferson’s first inaugural address with regular guest Lindsay Chervinsky. The speech, inaudibly delivered on March 4, 1801, is regarded as one of the top five in American history. After a hotly contested election, Jefferson was able to say, “We are all Republicans, we are all Federalists.” Part utopian vision for America, part political theater, part endorsement of the strength and durability of a republican form of government, the first inaugural address was one of the handful of Jefferson’s greatest written statements. 

Support the show by joining the 1776 Club or by donating to the Thomas Jefferson Hour, Inc. You can learn more about Clay's cultural tours and retreats at jeffersonhour.com/tours. Check out our merch.

You can find Clay's books on our website, along with a list of his favorite books on Jefferson, Lewis and Clark, and other topics.

Thomas Jefferson is interpreted and portrayed by Clay S. Jenkinson.

This week, Clay Jenkinson interviews frequent guest Beau Breslin of Skidmore College about the most famous decision in Supreme Court history. One William Marbury sued the US Government for not installing him into a post to which he had been appointed by outgoing President John Adams. Marshall could not find a way to get Marbury his job, but he did declare that the Supreme Court was the final arbiter of the Constitution, that it emphatically had the duty of determining which laws were constitutional and which were unconstitutional. Beau Breslin helps Clay sort out this monumental decision of 1803, which changed the nature of the US Court System forever.

Support the show by joining the 1776 Club or by donating to the Thomas Jefferson Hour, Inc. You can learn more about Clay's cultural tours and retreats at jeffersonhour.com/tours. Check out our merch.

You can find Clay's books on our website, along with a list of his favorite books on Jefferson, Lewis and Clark, and other topics.

Thomas Jefferson is interpreted and portrayed by Clay S. Jenkinson.

Professor Beau Breslin of Skidmore College returns to the Thomas Jefferson Hour to talk about important passages that were edited out of key American documents of the Founding Era, including the famous anti-slavery passage of the Declaration of Independence. How would America have been different if Jefferson’s attack on the slave trade had been included in the birth certificate of America. Clay and Beau also discuss the congratulatory letter to President-elect John Adams that Jefferson wrote but Madison persuaded him not to send. John Dickinson tried to include in the original Articles of Confederation a passage guaranteeing women religious freedom. Why was it removed? 

Support the show by joining the 1776 Club or by donating to the Thomas Jefferson Hour, Inc. You can learn more about Clay's cultural tours and retreats at jeffersonhour.com/tours. Check out our merch.

You can find Clay's books on our website, along with a list of his favorite books on Jefferson, Lewis and Clark, and other topics.

Thomas Jefferson is interpreted and portrayed by Clay S. Jenkinson.